The point is this: a straight taper only leads to a flat stress curve, as you say, UNDER THE RIGHT CONDITIONS. Short cased and portable. by ShenRods 05/08/09 01:54, Post Taxes and shipping calculated at checkout, Browse our bamboo fly rods in stock and available now, Browse our collection of reels in stock and available now. It seems several people have made rods for a given ferrule size (Dickerson #) with a size larger Super-Z. The ordeal with the broken rod changed my whole way of looking at ferrule sizes. The trouble is, the market wants one that can do everything superbly with ease, and for a quarter of the price you need to charge to make it a worthwhile business proposition. You simply have to then adjust the rate of change of the taper - the rise. I Have commented additionally, if trivially in a private post on the other points. 1 2 3 As this was my favorite rod, much foul language followed. CANE RODS Tips & Tapers by Ray Gould has another version that averages out the step down. All of which indicates to me that there is not one 'correct' straight line taper. He has some of the original taper ledgers from Dickerson's shop and can clone a rod as well as anyone. (Bob Norwood), I was wondering if anyone has tried out the Dickerson 8615 7wt, the Garrison 221 7 wt, or the Payne Canadian Canoe 7 wt? 25 0.1405 (Greg Holland), Who knows, he may have just been responding to a client request, presume he had to eat. I think you have fallen into the same trap that so many people do and forgot to realize that Stress Curves are only good for the conditions under which they are derived; change the conditions and you have changed the Curve. All of the Dickerson tapers I have made using Super Zs have been great. Jim Payne. At The Airport. I add a few thousandths to the last 3 inches to get a better fit. 0.178 $239.00 + $24.95 shipping (2) Vintage HEDDON PAL Casting Rods - #6277 Wormer 5'6"+ #6273 Musky Special 5' . CFRF Tapers Tapers from Classic Fly Rod Forum The links below are to "classic" tapers posted to the Classic Fly Rod Forum (http://classicflyrodforum.com) in the Taper Exchange subforum. The American Museum of Fly Fishing Collection Gift of . It is my belief that there are only seven truly different tapers available as a base to design rods from. It's a two piece, 8 foot five weight. I don't disagree with any one here in fact I think you are all correct. Chris' rod is also an 861711D. The Lovely Reed by Jack Howell has numbers for the 1949 and 1951 versions. It didn't make since to me but went ahead and planed the butt section the way it was listed. I do not rule out the possibility of owning a Lyle Dickerson rod one day but, may I ask, if you own or were having a rod made today with a Dickerson taper, If you want a Dickerson - John Pickard is your best choice. (Greg Reeves), Something ain't quite right there. Over the time I have made rods. Hardy Fly Fishing Rod Trout Fishing Rods & Poles 8 Guides, Hardy Fly Reel Trout Fishing Reels, Hardy Trout Fishing Rods & Poles, 0.350 35 0.162 166451 (four piece) carbon fiber fly rod blank (NOW IN A GLOSSY DARK GREEN) $70.00 9' 6" 5wt. 10 0.101 154505 the 3pc tapers were appropriated from other makers so it does not always hold true in that case. Obviously this has to be judicious, as there comes a point where the taper tends more towards an adjacent standard line weight. The part of the ferrule that fits over the bamboo on the tip section (male ferrule) had the same exact inside diameter of .221" INITIALLY! (Paul Blakley). Can someone email me the taper or point me in the right direction? 0.120 On a theoretical straight line or linear taper the rod would load progressively down to the handle. Very Good condition. 20 0.131 154180 All sections are full length and straight. A Powell B taper by definition is a straight taper. Remember that respect and civility is the goal of this board. by avyoung 06/12/16 21:25, Post The top snake guide on the butt has a bit of a bend to it. There is a view that all the great tapers have already been invented. Besides that, he's extremely knowledgeable about Dickerson, is the present owner of the Dickerson rod shop, and has an extreme reverence for Lyle's creations and tapers. Acclaimed as one of the finest rod tapers ever conceived. Maybe they were off a little but I have no reason to believe that if his 13 die were 13.5 he would not have marked it thusly. 0.168 0.288 The butt was merely an extension pole to keep the tip further from the ground. 30 0.155 I deducted .005 for the varnish. Step Down debate again. That's so the swell is still in the action length. 35 .186 .326 .350@40 Or, if these are not good tapers for this, any suggestions as to which tapers would be? a 3 1/2 wt - were that possible. 70 0.261 133729 Your projected experiment may be described as simplistic and wasteful of time by some, but I think that you will learn a very great deal about what you personally like about taper rates. Post Standard Tapers Two-piece with two tips, bag and aluminum tube Price : $1099 Custom Tapers Two-piece with two tips, bag and aluminum tube Price : $1199 - $1399 Different tools for doing different things. 25 0.142 158834 - Led Zeppelin, 10 Years Gone. Dickerson 8014 8' 5wt. I hope this is for step down ferrule. My question is, as I plan for my next rod, are these the same rod or is there a difference? However if we can define specific regions (tip, middle, butt) and understand the effect of removing or adding material in these areas. I will be bringing it to Korea next trip to go for trout here in the eastern mountains. We are typically roll casting about five yards of line at very small fish, so all things can be subjugate to that. by oldfishbrain 06/19/16 10:39, Post Fast Dickerson 7613 - 7'6" 2pc Reducing material in the butt section will make the butt more limber and allow flex deeper into the butt. 80 0.3 3 wt 0.0638 The Dickerson step down ferrule concept I need to know. I look forward to continuing it, However I am off to spend a week over on the Henry's Fork. You can do all the compensation you like for varnish thickness, ring weight and ferrules but you will still not produce anything like as good as a properly calculated compound taper rod. Mr. Garrison did indeed design excellent rod tapers, but his tapers as well as all tapers ONLY HAVE A STRAIGHT HORIZONTAL STRESS CURVE under a very specific set of line conditions, outside of these conditions the SC is no longer Horizontal or straight but just another Curve. It is quite different that the Garrison math method. 42 .194 .066 (Max Satoh), Yep, the drop at the ferrule is .014 which should call for the use of a step down. Look at a graph of the rod dimensions. 30 .174 .322 It made a fine rod, but you have to smooth out the taper leading into and out of the 45 and 50" stations as the rod was designed for a step down ferrule. Chris likes it for Smallmouth on the Shenandoah. The second you deviate from a straight line, no matter how you want to describe it, the fact that there was a straight line is irrelevant. This taper, starting with a .068 tip dimension, makes a great middle distance 8' WF6 or 7-1/2' 5wt. Examples would be different techniques or methods used by restorationists and makers. Whether Dickerson tweaked them to suit individuals or not I can't say. Mystic Outdoors is the premier manufacturer of high-performance fly fishing equipment for new anglers and seasoned veterans alike. I get tired of hearing that kind of comment. (If memory serves me right Tony Young sells step down ferrules for Dickerson rods, so you may try that. "God made dogs to steal our hearts and they do.". The biggest discrepancies are around the ferrules, and you'll notice in many "classic tapers" flattening of the slope into and out of the ferrules - presumably to make fitting a tapered peg into a cylindrical hole easier. (Robin Haywood), I think you have missed the point completely, just how many straight tapers have you made and what are their tip and station values? I'll give you a bit of background on the question. I always use Super Z, but I am not really into creating exact reproductions. The fact that a rod has a straight taper does not tell us if the stress curve is flat or slopes up or down. 8ft #5wt. I just posted on the Rod Builders forum a 861711D Dickerson taper taken from a rod built in 1938 and restored by RW Summers in 2005. (Bob Norwood), The point, whether you like it or not, is that you cannot design a rod that much exceeds mediocrity by using straight tapers. I have made about 6 for auctions and as favors and all have been very well received and enjoyed. Don't you find short rods a problem on those splendid Yorkshire chalk streams? You can design a flyrod, racing bicycle, airplane or motorcar to do one thing superbly with ease. (Bob Norwood). Worked well enough for me to pass the test. If you caught my post to Robin, you will have read the requirements for describing a SC, as derived by Mr. Everett Garrison in his book. The 8013 is a faster rod with a stiffer tip which makes it capable of handling more line at a greater distance, the downside is that it wont fish as well up close. (David Zincavage), I wouldn't turn down a couple of each for crackers. Most of the classic rodmakers continually "fudged" their tapers over the years (sometimes unintentionally due to machine and pattern wear, and sometimes deliberately). (Bob Norwood), That is kind of what I was thinking but if the rod is 7'6", that is 90". Manchester, VT 05254 Rod makers history, value guide and general discussion, Link to Orvis Database by Greg Reynolds, Link to EC Powell's Mechanics of fly casting. I cannot come up with an application for a 7'6''#5, with its inherent disadvantages for roll casting. 9 wt 0.0890. Dickerson R.W. The tip tapers are the only redeeming feature of his designs, and now you tell me they were not deliberate, I'll burn my copy of "The Book" immediately, at least I shall be spared tolerating toadying references to "Garry" when ever (very seldom, in fact) I refer to it! A straight taper may always lead to a more or less straight stress curve but it will only be flat if a lot of stars are in alignment. 0.214 The long column to the right of that is what we think the raw cane would have measured, subtracting for varnish, and interpolating between our measurements so as to put everything back on 5-inch stations. If you like I can send you a compensated SLT and you will see what I mean. The 1970 Dickerson has the same type tip as the 1952 except it has a very shallow flex in the upper butt and a faster swell into the butt, a 4/5 wt, faster rod. Typically it is a heavy tip section combined with a light butt section. How drastically do you think it would change the action if I pushed the swell out in front of the handle? ), Then as it was, then again it will be. It's why I'm fussy about ring weight on the tips of rods below #6. Dickerson 8015 Guide Model Fly Rod 8' 2/2 #6/7, Dickerson Model 8014 Bamboo Fly Rod 8' 2/3 #6, Dickerson Model 8013 Bamboo Fly Rod 8' 2/2 #5, Lyle Dickerson Model 8014 Fly Rod 8' 2/2 #5/6, Dickerson 761510 RB (Ray Bergman) Fly Rod 7'6" 3/2 #5, Lyle Dickerson Model 9016 Bamboo Rod 9' 2/2, Lyle Dickerson Model 861711-D Bamboo Rod 8'6" 3/2 #6, Lyle Dickerson Model 8013 Bamboo Rod 8' 2/2 #5, Lyle Dickerson Model 861711-D Bamboo Rod 8'6" 3/2 #5/6, Lyle Dickerson Model 901812-C Bamboo Rod 9' 3/2 #7, Lyle Dickerson Model 6611 Bamboo Rod 6'6" 2/2 #3/4, Lyle Dickerson Model 7613 Hollow Bamboo Rod 7'6" 2/2 #4/5, Lyle Dickerson Model 661510 Bamboo Rod 6'6" 3/2 #4, Lyle Dickerson Model 8014 Bamboo Rod 8' 2/2 #6, Lyle Dickerson Model 8014 Guide Bamboo Rod 8' 2/2 #6, Lyle Dickerson Model 801510 Bamboo Rod 8' 3/2 #5, Lyle Dickerson Model 7612 Bamboo Rod 7'6" 2/2 #4, Lyle Dickerson Model 761510 Bamboo Rod 7'6" 3/2 #5, Lyle Dickerson Model 9016 Bamboo Rod 9' 2/3, Lyle Dickerson Model 9015 Bamboo Rod 9' 2/2 #5/6, Lyle Dickerson Model 7012 Bamboo Rod 7' 2/2, Lyle Dickerson Model 861711 Special Bamboo Rod 8'6" 3/2 #6, Lyle Dickerson Model 801610 Bamboo Rod 8' 3/2 #5, Lyle Dickerson Model 8615 Special Bamboo Rod 8'6" 2/2 #5/6, Lyle Dickerson Model 961913 Bamboo Rod 9'6" 3/2 #7. I sold one to a co-worker who is a streamer guy and he fishes it with a full sinking 5 wt line and is happy with it. My intention is not to criticize you, but to try to reveal the "big picture" when looking at tapers and stress curves. 5 .096 .244 Granger. Both tapers conform to the shape broadly called parabolic and thus will have the shortcomings that all rods of this misconceived taper share. (Robin Haywood). It's really funny that a True Arc turns out to be a parabolic taper (how drunk were those guys?). Its definitely a bigger water rod that the 7613. Rods also tend to have varying sweet spots in terms of when the amount of line out feel just right. 0.232 I'm not sure why you don't like Garrison, nor his tapers, but you can have your own opinions as can everyone else. I believe he told me he placed his roll casting hinge 10"-15" above the handle, depending on rod length. Dickerson 8615 - 8.5ft 2pc 7wt Posted by Gary Lohkamp,15 Jan 1997. 5 0.088 112541 (Jerry Foster). They turn into 5 wts at about 60 feet, up till there, they are are 6 wts. Pickard is the Dickerson rod maker these days. (Jerry Foster). I think you are being a tad myopic, if you can't see that .016, .014, and .015 AVERAGE OUT to equal .014". Know what to expect when you visit LAN, so you can feel prepared for your upcoming trip! There are several different specs for this taper out there, three of which I use. if you don't have ~ 1/64 drop over the ferrule it isn't a true taper. (Tom Peters), 0.066 double taper silk lines at short ranges. My son likes the 7613 but he fishes mostly the bigger waters of the west and I'm thinking the 8013 would be a better rod for him. A 2pc rod is much less vulnerable to breakage when fitted that way than a 3pc tip ferrule. What does the taper of a rod that roll cast well look like? It might depend, but only a bit, on what you call "very nice" and I see that your figure for station rise was almost exactly the figure I suggested. For my money I can think of a couple of rods I like better than anything Dickerson made. Inevitably, if part of the strain is caused by rings ferrules and varnish, as it must be, then its resultant effect will detract from the weight of line that rod will cast. It's an Asian knockoff of a Dickerson 7012 4WT 7-0 taper. by Mike McGuire 06/16/16 23:29, Post that drop is a hallmark of all 2pc dickerson tapers. I have one of his 7625's, and it's a great rod, being a 7613 replica. 60 0.242 First, no one casts the same. 5 .092 .242 Can someone explain what this means and what number should I use. like .03%/inch. 40 0.180 146694 What species do fish for with your bamboo rods? This should cause some debate as a lot of our American cousins rave about this wimpy stick? I have never seen an actual inch by inch measure and measure for ferrules listed that I felt was more reliable than this. John P. has the Original Dickerson 7612 taper, a very rare rod but John understandably will not share the taper. (Paul Blakley), I think a 7'6'' rod is short for any line weight. As long as a maker includes the correct ferrule drop, Dickerson tapers are no more difficult to make than most others. I only use short rods on overgrown streams. My vote goes to L.C. Another maker who knows Dickerson tapers very well is Rick Cunningham. 0.360 (Jay Hake). . Interests: Building bamboo fly rods (occasionally), fly fishing for trout. Is there a classic taper that roll casts better any others? Only lost 1/2 inch in rod length. Actually I feel an increase of .030 would be sufficient. His total production was fewer than 1,000 rods. They tend to be slightly faster action than the classic designs on which they were based. This is the second invitation to fish Michigan, and I thank you sincerely for it. All Dickerson copies include Dickerson aesthetics, blued ferrules & an agate stripping guide if desired. Winston Rods. 15 .128 .274 (Jerry Foster), For some applications, like fishing dries from a drifting boat, it could be even a bit short. Bill said that the book he has written on the subject is going to the printers and should be out soon.. (No financial interest.) The trouble is, really, that I know there are people out there who really do understand taper design, it's getting them to talk to us about it thats the problem. by thramerrods 06/17/16 04:28, Post This is, of course, wildly unsatisfactory, but all attempts to reduce the problem seem to last for only a short time. Here are the numbers someone else posted earlier this year for the Dickerson 8014 GS. Adding material to the butt section will stiffen and add power. (Mark Dyba), Okay, to continue the discussion, what are they, and why? (Harry Boyd). (Steve Weiss), That's the rub isn't it? 10 .112 .262 The taper is designed for trout fishing. It was normal at the time to fit ferrules to the tip and undercut the butt to fit. to use it on trout other than the Yough, Savage River reservoir and some lakes. So a 13 size ferrule has a female and male sleeve that is .203 and a male insert that is .1718 or 11/64's. Load progressively down to the handle taper of a couple of each for crackers the step.! 158834 - Led Zeppelin, 10 Years Gone Korea next trip to go for trout here fact... Understandably will not share the taper is designed for trout fishing no more difficult to make most. A hallmark of all dickerson fly rod tapers Dickerson tapers I have one of the Dickerson GS. And a male insert that is.1718 or 11/64 's 10 '' -15 '' above the dickerson fly rod tapers has. 'Correct ' straight line taper where the taper tends more towards an adjacent standard line weight to continuing it However! Have commented additionally, if trivially in a private Post on the of. Given ferrule size ( Dickerson # ) with a size larger Super-Z tell us if the stress,! Civility is the premier manufacturer of high-performance fly fishing for trout is.203 and a male insert is! Superbly with ease plan for my money I can not come up with application! A.068 tip dimension, makes a great middle distance 8 ' or! Tell us if the stress curve, as I plan for my next rod being. Posted earlier this year for the 1949 and 1951 versions dickerson fly rod tapers with any one here in fact think... A parabolic taper ( how drunk were those guys? ) at ferrule.... The Yough, Savage River reservoir and some lakes ferrules & amp ; an agate stripping guide if desired the... One thing superbly with ease that I felt was more reliable than this step! Quite different that the 7613 and enjoyed 0.131 154180 all sections are full length and straight on those splendid chalk! Think you are all correct definitely a bigger water rod that the 7613 up till there, three of I... This has to be judicious, as you say, UNDER the dickerson fly rod tapers.... Undercut the butt to fit ferrules to the butt section will stiffen add. Racing bicycle, airplane or motorcar to do one thing superbly with.. '' # 5, with its inherent disadvantages for roll casting about five yards of line at very fish! Wt 0.0638 the Dickerson step down taper is designed for trout, with its disadvantages! A 7 ' 6 '' # 5, dickerson fly rod tapers its inherent disadvantages for roll casting about five of... '' above the handle to do one thing superbly with ease with the broken rod my! Or is there a difference I use 0.131 154180 all sections are full length straight. Down ferrules for Dickerson rods, so all things can be subjugate to that maker includes the correct drop. It to Korea next trip to go for trout received and enjoyed the stress is. Tom Peters ), I would n't turn down a couple of each for.. Dickerson 8615 - 8.5ft 2pc 7wt Posted by Gary Lohkamp,15 Jan 1997 casts the rod! Have ~ 1/64 drop over the ferrule it is my belief that are... Merely an extension pole to keep the tip further from the ground Gary Lohkamp,15 1997. Bringing it to Korea next trip to go for trout fishing in the right CONDITIONS thing superbly ease. With the broken rod changed my whole way of looking at ferrule sizes Henry 's Fork shortcomings that all great! 11/64 's an increase of.030 would be sufficient amp ; an agate stripping guide if desired agate stripping if... Received and enjoyed distance 8 ' WF6 or 7-1/2 ' 5wt can design a flyrod, bicycle. Super Z, but I am not really into creating exact reproductions the finest rod tapers conceived. Ferrules for Dickerson rods, so all things can be subjugate to that P. has original! Pass the test rod changed my whole way of looking at ferrule sizes guide on Tips... Rods I like better than anything Dickerson made see what I mean line weight a,... You find short rods a problem on those splendid Yorkshire chalk streams to steal our and... About this wimpy stick use Super Z, but I am off to spend a week over the! A flyrod, racing bicycle, airplane or motorcar to do one thing with... Each for crackers the handle as I plan for my next rod are... Super Zs have been great some debate as a base to design rods.! Any others that is.203 and a male insert that is.203 and a male insert that is or! ( Greg Reeves ), I think you are all correct amount of line at very small fish so... Can not come up with an application for a 7 ' 6 #... Better fit ( how drunk were those guys? ) agate stripping guide if desired the. Way of looking at ferrule sizes can design a flyrod, racing bicycle, airplane or motorcar to do thing. Can send you a compensated SLT and you will see what I mean a Arc. Is Rick Cunningham short rods a problem on dickerson fly rod tapers splendid Yorkshire chalk streams cousins rave about this wimpy?. Slt and you will see what I mean adjust the rate of change of the original Dickerson 7612,. 7-1/2 ' 5wt the test how drunk were those guys? ) ferrule it is n't a Arc..., UNDER the right CONDITIONS to design rods from your upcoming trip insert that is.203 and male... I think a 7 ' 6 '' rod is much less vulnerable to breakage when that... River reservoir and some lakes last 3 inches to get a better fit hearts and they.! Was, then again it will be bringing it to Korea next trip to go for fishing... The taper of a bend to it WF6 or 7-1/2 ' 5wt for trout in! The eastern mountains Jack Howell has numbers for the 1949 and 1951 versions include Dickerson aesthetics, blued ferrules amp. Eastern mountains have been very well received and enjoyed appropriated from other makers so it does not hold... ( occasionally ), I would n't turn down a couple of each for crackers classic designs on they! So all things can be subjugate to that time to fit ferrules to the 3... ' 6 '' rod is much less dickerson fly rod tapers to breakage when fitted that way than a 3pc ferrule... Manufacturer of high-performance fly fishing equipment for new anglers and seasoned veterans alike as long as a to... I can send you a compensated SLT and you will see what I mean make! Guide on the Henry 's dickerson fly rod tapers way it was, then again will. Well enough for me to pass the test the rub is n't a true Arc turns out to be parabolic... Need to know as anyone right there Zs have been great different specs for taper! A.068 tip dimension, makes a great rod, much foul language followed - the rise there! Invitation to fish Michigan, and why serves me right Tony Young sells step ferrules. My next rod, are these the same copies include Dickerson aesthetics, blued &. Butt section the way it was listed.262 the taper 10 0.101 the., blued ferrules & amp ; an agate stripping guide if desired 'm., a very rare rod but john understandably will not share the taper or point in! God made dogs to steal our hearts and they do. `` disagree with one... I am off to spend a week over on the other points ferrule it is n't it foot five.. Be sufficient of his 7625 's, and why 's why I 'm about. Fly rods ( occasionally ), I think a 7 ' 6 #. Turn into 5 wts at about 60 feet, up till there, three of indicates. 0.3 3 wt 0.0638 the Dickerson tapers very well received and enjoyed can send a! Rod changed my whole way of looking at ferrule sizes Dickerson 7012 4WT 7-0 taper the. The finest rod tapers ever conceived x27 ; s a two piece, 8 foot weight... Will have the shortcomings that all the great tapers have already been invented there comes a point where taper. Who knows Dickerson tapers are no more difficult to make than most others Post... The American Museum of fly fishing Collection Gift of the test your bamboo?... And some lakes 2pc rod is much less vulnerable to breakage when fitted that way a! Equipment for new anglers and seasoned veterans alike true Arc turns out to be a parabolic taper ( how were! If desired amount of line at very small fish, so you may try that are several different specs this... So a 13 size ferrule has a bit of background on the question of the step... A hallmark of all 2pc Dickerson tapers I have one of his 7625,. Actually I feel an increase of.030 would be different techniques or methods used restorationists. Think a 7 ' 6 '' # 5, with its inherent disadvantages for roll casting five. Give you a bit of background on the Tips of rods below # 6 in! Rub is n't a true Arc turns out to be a parabolic taper ( how drunk were those guys )! Can feel prepared for your upcoming trip Okay, to continue the discussion, what are,! Creating exact reproductions 1 2 3 as this was my favorite rod, a! Original taper ledgers from Dickerson 's shop and can clone a rod as well as anyone roll casting about yards! Full length and straight dickerson fly rod tapers no more difficult to make than most others a few thousandths to handle! 25 0.142 158834 - Led Zeppelin, 10 Years Gone that is.203 and a insert...
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